Comments on: the wisdom of trees http://magickcanoe.com/blog/2007/01/31/the-wisdom-of-trees/ a place where nature, photography and writing meet Mon, 08 Sep 2008 06:23:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: burning silo http://magickcanoe.com/blog/2007/01/31/the-wisdom-of-trees/#comment-28918 Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:50:09 +0000 http://magickcanoe.com/blog/2007/01/31/the-wisdom-of-trees/#comment-28918 Wayne - Yes, I believe we're thinking about the same things. First, there's the timber harvesting that makes it hard to draw a baseline of how a forest is doing. By removing trees before or as they're maturing, I think it may be impossible to evaluate long term effect of things like climate change. I think a lot of plantation pines are harvested by the time they're about 30 to 40 years old, so how can you evaluate "damage". Also, as is the case up here, we've had ice storms that have made quite a mess of the forests. I think that's now complicating the whole process. I've heard a few foresters say that the after-effects of the ice storm in '98 have not ended (continued weakness of trees that are easily damaged by wind and ice, insects and disease that were able to get a foothold in storm-damaged trees). So, how do you establish a base? The only way I can think of, offhand, is to look at forests such as stands of Sugar Maple. Luckily, I think they've been studied for quite some time due to concerns over acid rain damage (as mentioned in the blue-marked trees post). However, a lot of the Maple sugar forests up here were severely damaged in the ice storm, there goes a big part of the "study group"... Wayne - Yes, I believe we’re thinking about the same things. First, there’s the timber harvesting that makes it hard to draw a baseline of how a forest is doing. By removing trees before or as they’re maturing, I think it may be impossible to evaluate long term effect of things like climate change. I think a lot of plantation pines are harvested by the time they’re about 30 to 40 years old, so how can you evaluate “damage”. Also, as is the case up here, we’ve had ice storms that have made quite a mess of the forests. I think that’s now complicating the whole process. I’ve heard a few foresters say that the after-effects of the ice storm in ‘98 have not ended (continued weakness of trees that are easily damaged by wind and ice, insects and disease that were able to get a foothold in storm-damaged trees). So, how do you establish a base? The only way I can think of, offhand, is to look at forests such as stands of Sugar Maple. Luckily, I think they’ve been studied for quite some time due to concerns over acid rain damage (as mentioned in the blue-marked trees post). However, a lot of the Maple sugar forests up here were severely damaged in the ice storm, there goes a big part of the “study group”…

]]> by: Wayne http://magickcanoe.com/blog/2007/01/31/the-wisdom-of-trees/#comment-28899 Thu, 01 Feb 2007 12:03:22 +0000 http://magickcanoe.com/blog/2007/01/31/the-wisdom-of-trees/#comment-28899 Bev - damaged, yes! If we're thinking about the same thing, it would be that harvesting of wild trees (kind of akin to slaughtering tigers for their aphrodisiac properties) makes it hard to follow stable communities, as there are few such. Another plug for protection! Trees - they're big, easily identifiable and described, and, excepting the above problem, easy to monitor, though slow to move. Which makes their use as a canary even more of a good idea. And it's a good point that forests have been monitored for many, many years. Somewhere in the internets all of these data are available, I'm sure. Bev - damaged, yes! If we’re thinking about the same thing, it would be that harvesting of wild trees (kind of akin to slaughtering tigers for their aphrodisiac properties) makes it hard to follow stable communities, as there are few such. Another plug for protection!

Trees - they’re big, easily identifiable and described, and, excepting the above problem, easy to monitor, though slow to move. Which makes their use as a canary even more of a good idea. And it’s a good point that forests have been monitored for many, many years. Somewhere in the internets all of these data are available, I’m sure.

]]> by: burning silo http://magickcanoe.com/blog/2007/01/31/the-wisdom-of-trees/#comment-28827 Thu, 01 Feb 2007 02:27:48 +0000 http://magickcanoe.com/blog/2007/01/31/the-wisdom-of-trees/#comment-28827 robin - I guess that's what irks me so much about those who have "decided" that climate change doesn't exist -- I act like those who are concerned are some kind of cult followers. Rather bizarre considering that many of the people who are studying the effects of climate are scientists such as the forestry research people. Something is either happening or it isn't -- simple as that. The same goes for water and air pollution. It's not a fantasy. it's a quantifiable thing - there's no "believing" that there is or isn't pollution. Makes me mad when people twist the whole thing just because they don't like the results. - Wayne - I think trees are ideal as canaries. With so many species that favour different climate conditions, we should see changes in the survival of species on the edges of their range. I'm glad that montoring of forest stands began awhile ago. At least there should be some kind of baseline established... even if it's a somewhat damaged one. robin - I guess that’s what irks me so much about those who have “decided” that climate change doesn’t exist — I act like those who are concerned are some kind of cult followers. Rather bizarre considering that many of the people who are studying the effects of climate are scientists such as the forestry research people. Something is either happening or it isn’t — simple as that. The same goes for water and air pollution. It’s not a fantasy. it’s a quantifiable thing - there’s no “believing” that there is or isn’t pollution. Makes me mad when people twist the whole thing just because they don’t like the results.
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Wayne - I think trees are ideal as canaries. With so many species that favour different climate conditions, we should see changes in the survival of species on the edges of their range. I’m glad that montoring of forest stands began awhile ago. At least there should be some kind of baseline established… even if it’s a somewhat damaged one.

]]> by: Wayne http://magickcanoe.com/blog/2007/01/31/the-wisdom-of-trees/#comment-28775 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:28:46 +0000 http://magickcanoe.com/blog/2007/01/31/the-wisdom-of-trees/#comment-28775 The word "criminal", as well as "morally bankrupt", has been going through my head a lot lately, Robin. I only got a start on it last season, but I think that I will be choosing a few areas and doing concentrated observation on the state of existing trees, as well as other plants, in these areas. Bev's blue numbers post got me to thinking about how that might be done. Bev lists the effects of freaky weather as well as the incidence of emerging diseases on trees. Here I've observed the decline of rainfall and especially in the spring. It seems that a cline of one or more tree species along a slope would be worth watching. It's hard to perceive trees as being canaries, but the rationale is good. They're long-lived enough to persist through decadal variations in climate and yet a mature tree is so large that it must be living on the cusp of barely making it most of the time. And the intrusion of disease borne by insects and other vectors must be a big thing too. The word “criminal”, as well as “morally bankrupt”, has been going through my head a lot lately, Robin.

I only got a start on it last season, but I think that I will be choosing a few areas and doing concentrated observation on the state of existing trees, as well as other plants, in these areas. Bev’s blue numbers post got me to thinking about how that might be done.

Bev lists the effects of freaky weather as well as the incidence of emerging diseases on trees. Here I’ve observed the decline of rainfall and especially in the spring. It seems that a cline of one or more tree species along a slope would be worth watching.

It’s hard to perceive trees as being canaries, but the rationale is good. They’re long-lived enough to persist through decadal variations in climate and yet a mature tree is so large that it must be living on the cusp of barely making it most of the time. And the intrusion of disease borne by insects and other vectors must be a big thing too.

]]> by: robin andrea http://magickcanoe.com/blog/2007/01/31/the-wisdom-of-trees/#comment-28770 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:52:34 +0000 http://magickcanoe.com/blog/2007/01/31/the-wisdom-of-trees/#comment-28770 Studying the changing forest is essential, and does not require "believing" in global climate change. At some point the problems will be so big that denying them will be impossible. Perhaps we are there already, and so finally an assessment of the damage will be forthcoming. To not do anything in the face of such environmental decline is insane, but to knowingly contribute to it (the way our lovely administration has been doing) is absolutely criminal. Yes, like tossing more wood on the pyre. Studying the changing forest is essential, and does not require “believing” in global climate change. At some point the problems will be so big that denying them will be impossible. Perhaps we are there already, and so finally an assessment of the damage will be forthcoming. To not do anything in the face of such environmental decline is insane, but to knowingly contribute to it (the way our lovely administration has been doing) is absolutely criminal. Yes, like tossing more wood on the pyre.

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